Excerpts of Senator Christopher Dodd questioning Secretary of State                                      back
 nominee Condoleezza Rice on Cuba travel during Senate confirmation
 hearings January 2005

***************************************
 Dodd to Rice on Cuba travel

SEN. DODD: Let me jump quickly, because the time's going to move here.
Senator Martinez and others have raised the issue of Cuba, and again, no
one's here apologizing or defending Fidel Castro at all. But one of the
things that struck me -- and again, your opening statement talked to this,
and I think you rightly point out, in '89, '91, I remember being in the
Senate and watching those miraculous events* occurring -- and you are so
right to point out this just wasn't a victory of that year; this was a
victory that took years to achieve.

And one of the things that I think contributed to it -- and I presume you'd
agree with this -- in addition to our military prowess, which was very
important -- but was the amount of access we had, the amount of information
we punched in to those Eastern Bloc countries, that created people or gave
hope to people like a Lech Walesa and a Vaclav Havel and others, who,
because there was that communication and contact back and forth -- and, I
think, contributed to the collapse of the Soviet Union. You may not argue it
was an overwhelming reason, but it certainly was a major factor.

What troubles me here is that we're certainly -- we're going in the
opposition direction, in a sense, in dealing with Cuba, in many ways. And I
hear no idea to change anything at all. Tonight, if I walked out here, I can
go to any country in the world, if they would accept me. I can fly to Iran.
I can go to Iraq. I can go to North Korea. They may not let me in, but my
own government will let me go there. The only place in the world that I
can't go to -- nor can a Cuban-American see their family -- is the island
nation of Cuba. Why do we make such a difference and distinction on that
country if we're trying to break down those barriers and to demonstrate to
the Cuban people we're different? Why is it we deny Cuban-Americans, second
and third generations, the opportunity to go and visit their families, put
limitations on the remittances that go back? Isn't there a greater
possibility, given our earlier experience in the latter part of the 20th
century, that we might have a greater chance of effectuating change there,
than keeping it isolated and closed off?

MS. RICE: Well, Senator, there are those who believe that that's the case.

SEN. DODD: Well, didn't it work in part in Eastern Europe?

MS. RICE: Well, it worked in part in Eastern Europe, but it worked in part
in Eastern Europe after a long time in which we had -- in which those
countries were actually quite isolated. That -- it didn't happen overnight
in Eastern Europe.

SEN. DODD: Well, we had Radio Free Europe. We had all this activity --

MS. RICE: These were countries that it was possible to actually access a
civil society. It was possible to actually access university students and
the like.    Castro keeps such a tight lid and such a tight handle on that
regime --

SEN. DODD: (That's not ?) my point. Let him turn me down if I show up to go
in. Why are you telling me I can't go?

MS. RICE: Well, part of --

SEN. DODD: But I can go to North Korea, right? You could --

MS. RICE: The reason --

SEN. DODD: I can fly to North Korea. You would let me go there, wouldn't
you? There's nothing in the law --

MS. RICE: Yes, if you'd like to go. (Chuckles.)

SEN. DODD: No, but there's nothing that prohibits you from going.

MS. RICE: Right.

SEN. DODD: I can go to Iran. I can go to Iraq tonight, if I wanted to.

MS. RICE: Absolutely.

SEN. DODD: The only country you won't let me go to is the island nation of
Cuba. Why distinction --

MS. RICE: Because the Cuban regime would use your travel and the skimming
off the top of that travel --

SEN. DODD: And North Korea wouldn't do that?

MS. RICE: -- to continue to strengthen the hold of that brutal regime. And
that's what Castro does. He uses humanitarian efforts by people with their
families. He uses travel. He uses every possible way to skim the money to --

SEN. DODD: But Doctor, you're not going to tell me you're going to make that
distinction there and tell me that all these other places I've mentioned are
not equally as brutal -- arguably, more brutal.

In fact, some of them are directly involved in exporting terrorism, shipping
weapons around the world. You can't say that about the Cuban government at
this point. They may have earlier, but not today.

MS. RICE: Senator, not that many people are going to go to North Korea.

SEN. DODD: That's not --

MS. RICE: Castro has -- Castro has made a living of siphoning money off of
travel, off of mules that he sends, off of humanitarian packages. The Cuban
regime needs to be isolated in this hemisphere.

SEN. DODD: Well, all right. (Inaudible) -- my point is, there's -- enough
said. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

SEN. LUGAR: Thank you, Senator Dodd.

                                                                                   back